Satanism is a group of different philosophical and religious beliefs based on the focus on Satan. It was estimated that there were 50,000 Satanists in 1990. There may now be as many as one hundred thousand Satanists in the world. [[Image:Baphomet.png.
A direct quote from the link BibleNewsRadio posted: “Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}”
There are also plenty of professionals who have walked ch by ch through Josh McDowelss books demonstrating many errors and asking him to respond which he never did
a quote from what you linked: Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}
I can see why Christian apologists like this book. It is well written, with lots of sensible advice in arguing wtih skeptics, and it was written from the heart.
But the idea that some minimal agreed on set of facts makes the resurrection of Jesus the best explanation of history is just – bunk. In fact, it is pseudo-history, the way creationism is pseudo-science. It requires one to uncritically accept the historical value of the New Testament, and ignore all modern historical standards for evide
Many things that Habermas presume as true concerning, for instance, the idea that most scholars regard the “empty tomb” as a fact of history, are simply false. Scholars are not nearly so unified on accepting many of the premises assumed. He presumes so many facts told us by the bible that he might as well just say “Jesus is risen because the bible says so” and save us some time and money.
For reasons why the resurrection is not supported by history, and for other challenges to fundamentalist Chr
The argument is a proverbial house of cards. The authors start out with some premises that they say just about everybody, even skeptics, agree with. Well, a lot of us don’t agree with them. Anyway, the authors then try to build upon what they say “everybody” agrees with, in a house-of-cards fashion. If this is true, then that must be true. And if this, then that, etc.
I’ll give a very brief counter to each of the base premises:
drumroll
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446257015&sr=8-1&keywords=the+god+delusion
hi
amen
@henry_karla Amenm
Amen
Hi Vicki
@Vintuitive Hey Vin! I feel honored 🙂
Hi Travis
?
Self Empowering but a bit antagonistic to Christians
hey sisters!
@MoreNutrients Hey 🙂
welcome
exactly
I appreciate his boldness to share his perceptions
I love the way Vicki is locking this down
:]
http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/EvidenceBook/GaryHabermas_Evidence-for-the-historical-Jesus-Release_1point1.pdf
that is the first
https://www.probe.org/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources-2/
Were any of these secular sources eye witnesses?
@P1neCreek yes
@P1neCreek they are listed in the two links I just posted
which ones?
none of these were eye witnesses
her*
Josephus never saw jesus
tacitus never saw jesus
Vicki simplifies things very well, lovin’ here approach
Tavis has an excellent point on Thor
Thursday is Thors day. Do you believe in Thor?
Have you guys even read the counterarguments to all the evidence provided in the links?
prove Jesus didn’t exist.
wow
Richard Carrier
Robert Price
Richard Carriere
Cmon! Even the Devil knows that Jesus lived! !!
he’s not a god
I tend to agree with Travis here
Like the Tao Te Ching – did the Sage exist?
Does it matter?
let her talk please
The historical question of the existance of Christ gets in the way of the teachings
Travis doesn’t believe in Satan
Satan only matters to Christians
to Atheists it doesnt matter
if it’s not a big deal then why have this conversation in the first place?
@P1neCreek howdy
we believe because it is our choice to believe we have free will
do you need a book to know someone existed Travis?
ignostic
It is possible to be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic christian
Satan was a fallen angel
It’s because you choose to believe there is no God Travis
time to shoot up some Mr Brownstone and nod off/
that condescending “my friend” over and over
“bless your heart”
Pentagram is a symbol of LIFE Vicki
Satan is the father of lies and confusion
Pentagram is a symbol of LIFE Vicki
lol
she knows so much
“sweetheart”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Atheistic_Satanism
thank you @Vicki_Fitch
You were stating Pentagram is evil Vicki
Satanism is a group of different philosophical and religious beliefs based on the focus on Satan. It was estimated that there were 50,000 Satanists in 1990. There may now be as many as one hundred thousand Satanists in the world. [[Image:Baphomet.png.
Pentagram is a pure expression of the Goldeen section – the mathematical expression of life
Yeah. Don’t get as loud as Vicki Travis.
sigh
Travis, be nice bro 🙂 There’s a lot of nice atheists out there. some are friends. be cool man 🙂
somehow I kicked myself out
nope
A direct quote from the link BibleNewsRadio posted: “Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}”
she’s cornering me
nope she is not
she is being very gracious
no
some atheists are very evangelical 🙂
that’s one sided
@JeremyOnline25 LOL!
Maybe the way you were raised?
wat
Is that a Bible on Travis’s desk?
@TheBigBadBrad50 and seriously, some are really nice too 🙂
Christians can
can’t swear?
it’s called free will and choice
lol
What in the world does it matter where you live Travis?
lol that’s just messin up all the stereotypes ?
@TheBigBadBrad50 they dismiss ppl from the south 🙂 we all racist bible thumpers u know 🙂
@JeremyOnline25 ooooh! lol
Yeh come on Travis. You have to read the details.
@TheBigBadBrad50 but Vicki is from PA and a lot of my friends are black. so let this be a lesson not to stereotype:D
@JeremyOnline25 lol
GREAT BOOK
Case for Christ is always a GREAT book to read
Why are apologetics necessary?
@chet_hovatter Use the /q and they can see your questions better.
@biblenewsradio Lee Strobel is amazing!!!
I love Lee Strobel’s work and also Ravi Zacharias’ work
@TheBigBadBrad50 Thanks. I’m aware. Just throwing things in the sidebar for fun.
http://www.amazon.com/Skeptics-Annotated-Bible-Steve-Wells/dp/0988245108
http://www.amazon.com/50-Simple-Questions-Every-Christian/dp/161614727X/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=41SwfqTqGzL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR105%2C160_&refRID=1ABCRJEVHGA81HQ7JH29
Right Chet
circular logic cannot be used
When you look in the bible to confirm the bible it confirms the bible with the bible. Bible.
the hyksos
clearly
clearly no conflict of interest there
Because Biblical Archeology magazine is not biased from the start.
“scientific”
aig is a painful dedication to the power of ignorance
https://answersingenesis.org/ is also packed with information
Everyone is Welcome to join next week!
Travis Statham put this on your Calender for next Thursday.
Vicki if I start a blab will you join about this topic? Very civil, no debating.
There are also plenty of professionals who have walked ch by ch through Josh McDowelss books demonstrating many errors and asking him to respond which he never did
PLENTY
@P1neCreek I can’t today but I am happy to connect
Great point!
there are many atheists who are that way because they read the bible
what if both points of view are right?
no rational person should believe in a miracle without extraordinary evidence outsied of the original claim
@vicki ok, I followed you.
Answers in Genesis is a great place to go to as well
AiG is a farce
yes I hear you
her
I hear her
Let my people think Ravi Zachariah
I do
I’m on answers in genesis all the time!
Open the seat Stacy
Have you done the reverse stacey?
@BibleNewsRadio open the seat
what if not about intellect what it’s about something else?
Can you see me @biblenewsradio
No, @vicki_fitch
ooh!
like you? What’s Travis like?
that
yes! amen to tha
why do you study it through the filter of an apologist?
@P1neCreek I was trying to think of how to word that!
he had to read it
that’s unfair
no that’s totally ridiculous
the truth can be offensive
Wants to fight the bible and wont read it?? wow.
nope
you can’t do that
@SparkleBranding Excactly
haah do i have to read every myth to know its not true?
Try God Is Not Great. You will love it!
and then she didnt want to talk about god delusion at all
a quote from what you linked: Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}
EXACTLY. Not the debate anymore…now the question is whether or not He IS Lord.
exactly
it’s not that difficult
not at all
we complicate it
I can see why Christian apologists like this book. It is well written, with lots of sensible advice in arguing wtih skeptics, and it was written from the heart.
But the idea that some minimal agreed on set of facts makes the resurrection of Jesus the best explanation of history is just – bunk. In fact, it is pseudo-history, the way creationism is pseudo-science. It requires one to uncritically accept the historical value of the New Testament, and ignore all modern historical standards for evide
always read the 1 star reviews
Many things that Habermas presume as true concerning, for instance, the idea that most scholars regard the “empty tomb” as a fact of history, are simply false. Scholars are not nearly so unified on accepting many of the premises assumed. He presumes so many facts told us by the bible that he might as well just say “Jesus is risen because the bible says so” and save us some time and money.
For reasons why the resurrection is not supported by history, and for other challenges to fundamentalist Chr
@Vicki, if there was an error in the bible, would you leave your belief?
exactly
ask again
Non-answer
when was jesus crucified
you can’t ask that question until you read the bible
before or after the passover
Thank you!
The argument is a proverbial house of cards. The authors start out with some premises that they say just about everybody, even skeptics, agree with. Well, a lot of us don’t agree with them. Anyway, the authors then try to build upon what they say “everybody” agrees with, in a house-of-cards fashion. If this is true, then that must be true. And if this, then that, etc.
I’ll give a very brief counter to each of the base premises:
1) Jesus’ death by crucifixion;
Most skeptics have agreed to this
ugh!!!
@henry_karla I know!
these comments are from amazon – the 1 star reviews
before deciding whether its worth reading, read these comments
@travcaust1c If you want to continue the conversation message me on Twitter @vicki_fitch. I will be praying for you 🙂 XOXOXO
thanks. I’ll query god’s database for prayers.
@travcaust1c You may find yourself a believer if you do 🙂
how will I know what a positive response looks like?